Do you believe in God?

[de Silentio]

which is relatively simple

How so. Relative to what?

It is much more likely that the universe (which is relatively simple) sprung from nothingness.

So your saying that it is more likely that 'something' came from 'nothing' than that a being created the something?

[krazy kaju]

Originally Posted by de Silentio

How so. Relative to what?

Relative to a supremely intelligent and complex being.

What is the chance that a bunch of elements spring up from nowhere? Answer: Greater than a bunch of matter springing up from nowhere and creating an infinitely complex being (God).

So your saying that it is more likely that 'something' came from 'nothing' than that a being created the something?

Then that being had to come from nothing.

It is much more likely that a disorganized mass came from nothing than an organized, complex, and intelligent one.

[Didymos Thomas]

Do you believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

no, any reason to do so?

In any case, you cannot argue that you cannot disprove something because there is no evidence to disprove it.

Actually, you can, and I have. If there is no evidence to disprove a claim, the claim cannot be shown to be false. It's not counterintuitive, this is not a logical fallacy (show me which fallacy!) it's a fairly simple claim.

Sure, if someone says "God exists" the burden of proof is on this person. Until they claim is verified, there is no reason to believe that God exists. I've admitted this so far.

However, I've also argued that for an atheist to claim 'there is no God', the atheist should provide some evidence just as the theist should provide evidence for his claim.

And this has been my point. Neither the theist nor the atheist, making such claims as "God exists" and "God does not exist", can hope to prove their claim to be true. Emprical evidence simply does not provide the atheist and the theist the opprotunity to prove these claims.

So why believe in the Abrahamic (or any other) God? Why even be a deist?

I'm begining to think you spent very little time reading my post before relying to it.

So... Why believe in God? Well, I believe in God because of personal experience. This experience is not sufficient for you to believe, but it is sufficient for me to believe.

You talk about God being illogical. The problem with these sorts of claims is, obviously, which God?

[NeitherExtreme]

Originally Posted by krazy kaju

How likely is it that a super intelligent and complex being has existed without us being able to detect him?

Are you suggesting that you have some way of determining the probabilities involved in that statement? Do you have any reason to think that we have "detected" a large portion of reality? How would you know that we had?

[de Silentio]

Originally Posted by krazy kaju

Relative to a supremely intelligent and complex being.

Who are you to say that the univerise is simple by any means? Especially relative to a being who you have no concept of?

What is the chance that a bunch of elements spring up from nowhere?

I would guess none, since something cannot come from nothing.

Answer: Greater than a bunch of matter springing up from nowhere and creating an infinitely complex being (God).

We are not discussing God's origin, we are discussing our universes origin.

Then that being had to come from nothing.

Again, we are not discussing God's origin, we our dicussing our universes origin. ]

It is much more likely that a disorganized mass came from nothing

Is that logical, or a violation of logic?

It is much more likely that a disorganized mass came from nothing than an organized, complex, and intelligent one.

One word... Entropy.

Also, who says that our mass is disorganized?

[de Silentio]

Also, who says that our mass is disorganized?

I do. Perhaps the 'time' before the Big Bang was a state of complete organization, and we are in the process of becoming disorganized. Our mass is thus in more of a disorganized state than the 'original position'.

[Kitten1978]

The answer to your question also depends on the description of God. For some, it is a divine power.... whereas it can also be just "you" who is God..... or a tree can be God, or any form of energy can be God....... I think this is a huge topic...... God can be a neural synapse as simply put; so it can just be a neuron firing..... So, I think the description of God is more important than it's existence. Even Atheism has a God on it's own because t still is a "system" of belief..... so any system can also be a "God".

[philosopherqueen]

I don't know if I believe in god because I've had such a shaky background with religion. I believe there's something out there but I'm not sure if it's God or not.

[Play_Dough]

Originally Posted by Pythagorean

Please vote above.

Please tell me if you believe in God or don't believe.

Perhaps you could give some explanation or reason for your position?

Thank you
--Pythagorean

Yes, I believe in God.

Why? ..... Because, through successful meditation (silencing the mind chatter), one can go 'within' beneath the veils of ego personality and beneath the sensory input of all external appearances and eventually discover 'a light'.

The 'light' is powerful and creative and exists outside of the space/time continuum. The 'light' is conscious, living and 'real'. It (the 'light') does not quite 'fit' the theological definitions of 'God'. In fact, the 'light' is so utterly comprehensive that the word "God" is the only (type of) 'definition' that is not a limitation.

Once this 'light' is discovered then the dichomoty between 'evolution' and 'Intelligent Design' disintegrates into 'oneness' (a unity). In other words, 'Man' is 'the glove' and God is 'the hand'.

Its all much more exciting than the theologists say. It is filled with infinite possibilities and potentialities, and the only 'dilemma' is "To Be, or not To Be" (to choose) and then to choose 'what' "To Be".

Bottom line: When one strips away the 'beasty nature' and 'gets under' all of the sensory information and then proceeds futher to 'get under' the veils of ego/personality then they will find 'God'.

Summary: Anyone wishing to 'find God' is well advised to 'strip search' their psyche.

.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by philosopherqueen

I don't know if I believe in god because I've had such a shaky background with religion. I believe there's something out there but I'm not sure if it's God or not.

Religion really has nothing to do with God. Religion is a product of man, not God. Discovering God... that still light within is actually far from any sort of religion.

Great post Play_Dough. Couldn't have described it any better! Thank you!