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Old 03-13-2008, 12:07 AM
Play_Dough Play_Dough is offline
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where to begin..... ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by de Silentio View Post

Where does the self fit into the chain of cause and effect?


I can see how this example relates to what you said about metaphysics, but this example is vastly different than the $5 or boulder examples that you gave. The former shows how a person’s will has control over their body, the latter shows how a person’s will has control over something physically detached from themselves.



The slits experiment shows how our consciousness effects the physical world, how does that not show what you are saying? The experiment shows that man participates in how the photons act, if man is not watching, they act like a wave, if man is watching, they act like particles.



We know what is going on behind the screen, we are shooting photons at it. What we don’t know is what goes on between the screens, that why we try to observe it.

In what way does metaphysics attempt to discern what was going on behind the screen as opposed to physics?



Can you please explain to me how you extrapolated this from Descartes writings.
A) The "self" fits into the chain of cause and effect because the 'self' is involved.
Metaphysics sees and experiences 'the self' as at the center of all phenomena. It is 'a belief system'. It is based upon the 'metaphysical fact' that underneath the veils of mind and underneath the veils of the ego (all 'within') is 'the creator'.

B) The sense of 'physical detachment' is not really (metaphysically speaking) an actual detachment. 'Thought' is considered a 'causal agent' and if 'thought' is not involved then the 'causal agent' is a pre-existing pattern (i.e., a belief) embeded in the psyche.
Much of this is a matter of deciding where 'the self' begins and ends.
Metaphysics sees the 'self' as (ultimately) expanding infinitely... 'without' to the ends of the universe and 'within' to the pure creative source that delivered one into 'being'.

C) "Meta" means 'hidden' or 'behind' or 'not visible'.
Imagine, for a moment, that you (unaware) are inside of a 'mirrored hamster ball of consciousness'. You are (unknown to yourself) at the un-moving center and what it is that you 'see' all around you is the contents of your complete consciousness projected into the 3D 'reality'.
In other words, you are in a hologram of your own consciousness. Once this realization is made then one realizes that changing the contents of consciousness changes the 3D 'reality'!

D) Descartes famous quotation "I think, therefore I am", interpreted from a metaphysical point-of-view, means that Descartes 'came into being' because of thinking.
It (the quotation) is not saying that Descartes proof of 'being' is because he is able to think... but rather that his being was produced by his thinking himself into 'being'.
In other words, (a minor example) someone shows up at an event. That 'someone' decided earlier to go to the event. His presence at the event is due (initially) by his thinking (combined with a desire).

Note: The fundamental principle of metaphysics is that each person is a 'creator'. The truths of metaphysics are 'self proving' but may or may not have general application. What it is that may be true for one person may not, as yet, be true for another. So, the 'scientific method' is not applicable.
So, the aspiring metaphysician conducts experiments and 'the rule' is to not cease the experiment until the desired result is attained.
Initially, 'rationality' is a speed-bump that must be by-passed. Metaphysics sees 'rationality' as a mere 'tool' (a consultant) rather than as a master.

The bottom line of metaphysics is that we can (and do) affect our 3D 'reality' by our thoughts. The thoughts that are the most embedded (the oldest) have the greatest potency.

To test this one needs only to conduct personal experimentation. We can push a button on a TV remote and change the channels. So too can we alter reality by our thoughts. "Thoughts (and beliefs) are things", they are powerful, and can and do alter 'reality'. We can think, while walking down a path, to walk in another direction (up the path). And, if we so desire we will change directions. We do not consider this as 'miraculous' but metaphysics does. It is the use of the mind to navigate through space/time.
So, the question is, "How much can I alter reality"? The answer is that we do not know until we begin to try.

Perhaps the 'big' metaphysical (and Socratic) question is: "What happens when God says, "I am not God"?

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